MEETING MINUTES
TOWN OF PITTSFIELD
HOUSING STANDARDS AGENCY
Town Hall, 85 Main Street
Pittsfield, New Hampshire
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MONDAY, JANUARY 28, 2008
Present – Ch. Elkins (BE), VCh. Hast, Mr. Wolfe (MW), Mr. Provencher HSA Board, Mr.
Miskoe (BM)(Planning Board) were present. Fred Okrent (FO), HSA Administrator, was also
present.
Absent: Lt. Abell.
Meeting called to order at 7:08 PM at the Town Hall by Chairman Elkins.
Public Present:
Steve Aubertin (SA), Mike Mclaughlin (BI)
1) Appointments
a) Steve Aubertin
Started with a general discussion on past variances as found on spreadsheet. Who granted
them and how?
BM How many were granted?
FO I don’t know exactly, that is the only record I have found.
BE An exception did not have to be granted on an existing structure.
A general discussion on how and when a structure was grandfathered, loses that on
modification > 33%. Existence prior to 1964 (when Ordinance was originally passed)
automatically grandfathered a structure.
BI If you don’t know, you can’t make him comply.
SA Question. Where does authority to grant variances come from? If something was built in
1900 and subsequently modified wasn’t subject to grandfathering. Then once a CO was
granted it stood until >33% of the structure was modified.
General discussion on transferring property that had outstanding deficiencies and thus
financial impact, and when an reinspection was required.
SA Discussed Home inspections and impact on sales. Presented pictures of stairs and requested
assurance that Board would stand behind approval of stairs by Inspector.
BI Stated he was not alright with stairs and would not let them stay.
SA Stated his clients had done everything asked of them and after 2 years would have to go
back to where they started and that was a “terrible injustice”.
BE Stated he had asked for a copy of the original report – rebuilt was a poor choice of words.
SA Stated these stairs were built on top of what was there. This is what Fred wanted…Make
the point that the Board had to stand behind the decision and that the stairs would have to
be redone “at who’s expense”? It’s unfair.
BM Asked BI about types of code violations- structural vs life safety.
BI Unless you have an expert condemn units, you have to accept them.
BM What is the border of life safety issues?
BI No question on life safety.
SA The only authority for entrance is the fact that it is a rental.
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BI Let me clarify something – If you could require rebuilding is if they were built to code. These
stairs had no chance of being built to code- not enough room.
BM Who ordered the stairs to be replaced?
SA The HSA inspector. In fairness to Fred- He said he would stand behind it. Now we have
disagreement between 2 Town agencies and my client shouldn’t have to pay for it.
BM I see an abandoned stringer under the new stairs. Who decided it had to be replaced?
SA The inspector.
FO No. I used a bad word- I said rebuilt when I meant repaired. I did not say the old stairs had
to be ripped out, abandoned. My complaint with the old stairs that were there was that
there was no bottom step, it was a cinder block that sat on the dirt floor- it was “rocky”, it
moved. That’s an unsafe condition for anybody. The other problem I had with the stairs
was that the treads tilted- they were not level- that could have been fixed with shims,
shimstock, and ¼ luan, after making the structure tight with, lets say, some deck screws. A
repair could have been accomplished easily and the stairs made much safer. I knew they
could never comply with the code.
BM OK.
SA One of us is lying.
MW Is a permit required to rebuild?
BI Yes.
BM Did anyone come to you with a plan or for a permit?
BI No.
BM So Fred told them they needed to repair it, they decided to do this, and you might or might
not have approved it so this whole thing just happened- They acted on Fred’s request for a
repair and they did a reconstruction which doesn’t meet code and the question is which is
worse.
BI What’s there now is worse – much worse
BM So if the basement is filled with smoke, how can the FD make the turn at the bottom?
BI You can’t walk down- you have to go down backwards.
BM This is hindsight but if something like this happens in the future, shouldn’t Free say before
you do the repair see the building inspector and get a permit so that Mike can say whether it
will work. This is the step that got missed.
BI They don’t need a permit – I don’t have the authority to make them rebuild that set of stairs.
BE But on the report, it says rebuild – that’s where the problem is.
FO I used the wrong word.
BM So rebuild would require a permit, repair doesn’t.
BI Right – I would have told them if the treads were screwed up to fix the treads.
FO Basically, it talks to the treads – it says “stairs need to be rebuilt” – OK, wrong word, “level
treads all the way to the floor.
BM Would that have gotten rid of the cinder block at the bottom step?
FO Am I lying Steve? Is that what it says?
SA I don’t mean to attack but I’ve sat in on a couple of these inspections and I am an authority
on this because I’ve managed this building for 10 years and those set of stringers were only
in there for about 5 years. Mr. Berkson built them. Put them in to replace the other set that
were exactly like them. When the Kims bought the place, I was involved in the transaction
and I don’t know what the Kims between then and when I became manager. I do know that
I sat in that basement with you and I asked you in December of ’06 (I think) because I did
see that the Kims did this and I think there is a misunderstanding with the language barrier
and I think that you wanted to go back to this instead of this, and upon reinspection that
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was a complete not the case, you’re right there was cinder blocks there that they put there
to get to the platform you wanted and you told me this is what you wanted with a handrail.
And that’s why it got to where it is. Now believe me, if you stand behind this, this is no
problem to me. I’m just saying, the expense to the Kims, have been unfairly treated in this,
whether it’s a lack of communication and I’m gonna tell you, you can call me a lot of
things, whether its a [expletive deleted] or whatever, but I’m not a liar, and I’ve sat in on a
few of these things and I tried to get you to go back to the old set of stairs because it was
the best plan and there’s a part of my frustration with the activities of this board and if you
want, this is unfair, and you can take it to your grave, this is unfair and it’s not right.
FO Who built that set of steps?
SA The Kims themselves did this because this is the direction you gave them and I
communicated that to them. And you can take this however you want, but the Kims didn’t
want this. Reason I was involved, they were so frustrated, what did they have to do to pass
this HSA inspection?
BM Do you think the owners felt they were being directed to build a particular kind of stairs,
the rebuild the one…
SA They did exactly what they were asked to do. I’m not calling him a liar –
BM By who?
SA By Fred Okrent
FO I never talked to the Kims.
SA He talked to me and I communicated it to them.
PP What are our options at this point?
BI At this point, the Kims built this set of stairs whether or not Fred wanted them to. They’ve
been approved at the last inspection.
SA The last inspection, it passed so whatever happened, happened.
BI So at this point, this set of stairs absolutely needs to be ripped out and gone back to the old
way and maybe another step built down after the platform, instead of the cinder block. And
I’m in agreement with Steve. I think the town should put up the bucks to do it because we
made them do this and it’s not their problem.
General discussion on need for permits and approvals, consequences of making decisions and
granting variances. Repair costs were discussed at around $300. Discussion turned to
approaching the Selectboard for $350, using the old stringers and repairing the steps. Stair
oversight assumed by BI. BE and LH will meet with the Town Administrator to discuss the
matter.
Motion made by MW to address stair issue at 2 Chestnut St with the Selectboard, reimbursing
the owners for remedying the situation in the best way possible. 2nd by PP. No discussion on
the motion, passed 5-0.
Request for non-public at conclusion of meeting requested by BI with FO present.
2) Meeting Minutes;
a) Motion made by Mr. Wolfe to accept the minutes of 12/17/07 after repair of typo, pg. 2 sec. A
from wee to see, 2nd by Mr. Provencher. Motion passed, 5-0.
3) Old Business
None
4) New Business:
a) Progress reports:
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b) No shows
i) Latti
ii) Rudolph
iii) Lambiris
iv) Magliozzo
Discussion on providing a list of persistent no shows to Board for discussion of rememdies.
5) Public Input:
None
6) Motion to adjourn and go to non-public session: by Mr. Wolfe, 2nd by Ms. Hast. All in favor,
motion passed. Meeting adjourned at 8:00 PM.
Respectfully submitted,
Fred M. Okrent